Saturday, 7 August 2010

Eugh!

For want of a more interesting topic, the case of the cloned cow currently has the British media in a tizzy.

The idea of eating a cloned cow is apparently Wrong. Now personally, as a vegetarian, I agree, but that has nothing to do with the "cloned" part. However, for those who don't see a problem in eating cows, eating cloned cows should be no biggie because a cloned cow is, by definition, a cow.

Even if something did go wrong, and the cow ended up mutated, eating a mutant cow is not exactly a death sentence. It's not as if its DNA gets incorporated into yours when you eat it. DNA gets digested pretty quick for one thing, and for another, unless you're a bacteria your cells don't just go around incorporating bits of DNA that they find lying around. You are what you eat, but not literally.

So why is this such a hot topic? Because it's rather disgusting and unnerving. Probably because a cloned animal occupies the uncanny valley: it's a living creature, but it's also "artificial" - it was created in a lab. There's little rhyme or reason to this. Eating lots of red meat poses a finite risk of heart disease and cancer, or more immediately, you could choke to death or die on the road on the way to buy it. Neither's very likely, but they are known risks.

But then, no-one said disgust makes sense. No-one is silly enough to build a moral philosophy based around waxing lyrical about the "wisdom of repugnance" or ... oh hang on. Hmm. Go get a glass of water. Spit in it, and drink it. Eugh, that's a disgusting idea. You didn't do it. I wouldn't. Even though our mouths are full of spit and we're drinking it, 24/7. You can't trust disgust.

Ultimately cloned-cow-gate is just a silly season story, but disgust can mislead us when it comes to much more important matters. How much of the opposition to, say, organ donation is based on a rational weighing-up of the costs and benefits - the consequences, or in other words, what actually exists - and how much is based on "eugh" - what's in our own heads?

A couple of years ago there was a scandal in the UK when some organs were transplanted from deceased people who had registered as donors but who may not have given permission for those specific organs to be taken. This was a scandal, not because anyone was actually harmed (if anything lives were saved) but because the idea of harvesting organs without permission is just, eugh.

Still, this kind of thing isn't limited to "conservatives"; people of a liberal disposition like to think that their opinions on things like end-of-life medicine and biotechnology are based on reasons rather than emotions, but liberals have emotions too. I opposed the invasion of Iraq, I marched on February 15th, and in the light of what's happened since I stand by that, well 90% of the time.

But I confess that my opposition was based less on weighing up the overall consequences (to Iraqis and others), and more on "Eugh - we shouldn't drop bombs on Iraqi kids". That's a pretty powerful Eugh. But if I'm going to be consistent, I'll have to admit that this was not a case of practising what I've preached in this post.

7 comments:

petrossa said...

It's very culturally based ofcourse, the Eugh factor. Eating live monkeybrains is pretty disgusting to me, but still it used to be (maybe still is) considered a delicacy in some parts of the world. Or eating eyes. That's a big Eugh to me, again to others its a delicacy.
Clash of the cultures. Americans shiver at the thought of eating raw milk products, the French love it.

Anonymous said...

Eating frogs? Snails?
You should try it...

Jeni Decker said...

GReat post.

I wrote a novel called "The Wisdom of Repugnance", a dark comedy that explores this 'ick factor', as well as a blog similar to yours, only with a policial bent.

http://closetspacemusings.blogspot.com/2010/06/mike-huckabee-is-tool.html

Totally agree with your thoughts here.

Jeni ;)

Al said...

I think this may have more todo with the memory of the BSE incident than being directly related to cloning.

After BSE, foot&mouth etc all cows are tagged and tracked to make sure contaminated meat doesn't enter the food supply. And that system has failed and allowed a cloned (not legally permitted for human consumption) to enter the food supply.

But a boring story about failed regs doesnt sell copy, a Frankenstein scare story does sell copy.

So what we have here is a basic failure of the regulations and another example of how dysfunctional the media is today.

wreaver said...

One could equate this "eugh" you speak of with the purity/sanctity response from moral foundation theory.

Regarding,
"A couple of years ago there was a scandal in the UK when some organs were transplanted from deceased people who had registered as donors but who may not have given permission for those specific organs to be taken. This was a scandal, not because anyone was actually harmed (if anything lives were saved) but because the idea of harvesting organs without permission is just, eugh."

While many do have a purity/sanctity response (i.e., an "eugh" response) to this, my impression is that some may also be having responses relating to property. (Right now, I believe moral foundation theory includes notions of property into the authority/respect dimension. Although my current opinion is that there may be a little more structure to it.)

Regarding,
"Still, this kind of thing isn't limited to "conservatives"; people of a liberal disposition like to think that their opinions on things like end-of-life medicine and biotechnology are based on reasons rather than emotions, but liberals have emotions too."

My impression is that there is variety to the people who self-identify as "liberal" (in the American sense of the word). But among some of these people, I've observed the following that seem like purity/sanctity responses:

- Some one working when they are younger than a certain age. (I.e., child labor even if the child chooses to work. Especially directed towards the employer.)

- Some one working for less than a certain amount of money. (I.e., minimum wage. Also, especially directed towards the employer)

- Racist talk or beliefs. (Directed against the person who engages in the racist talk or has the racist beliefs.)

- Sexists talk or beliefs. (Directed against the person who engages in the sexist talk or has the sexist beliefs.)

(Not meant to be a complete list.)

Neuroskeptic said...

Good points, I'm not very up on moral foundation theory but it seems pretty solid.

Anonymous said...

This comment is not really related to neuroscience, but I just have to get one thing off my chest here.
For me, the argument for not eating cloned meat (yet) goes beyond the 'yuk' factor.
Of course the cloned DNA doesn't get mixed with ours as we eat it, but it may have effects on the quality/health hazard of the meat itself, however unlikely. Who is to say (without larger studies) that the cloned animal may not have a weaker immune system, react differently to medication or growth hormones etc.?
These may be rather unlikely possibilities, yet I would rather have the peace of mind that the altered DNA didn't make the meat 'harmful' in some way.

I take aspirin, knowing that it has been extensively tested in (more or less) strict clinical trials under many different conditions and know about risks and side effects. the same should be done with cloned meat.

Recently, a debate flashed up in German media whether or not offspring of cloned bulls should be allowed for consumption.
The pro side stated that 'it has been shown in studies' that this meat is OK. Most probably, it is, but you know the sample size of 'these studies'? 2 !!! animals were tested...
See what I mean?