..."yes and no". A while back I blogged about some researchers who analysed internet discussions of antidepressants to work out what users thought about them. Now a new paper's just come out, doing much the same thing but focussed on a single comment thread: Miracle Drug, Poison, or Placebo.Back in 2008, MSNBC ran this article, prompted by the recent publication of the famous Kirsch paper. The article itself was short but the ensuing discussion in the comments rapidly grew to epic proportions. By the end of it there were a total of 1,629 posts by a total of over 1,200 people.
In the new paper, author Michael Montagne presents an analysis of the thread. He read through all of the postings and focussed on the ones written by people who had personally taken antidepressants. After excluding obvious spammers and other undesirables (see the picture...), there were still 960 antidepressant users who wrote 1,231 posts.
He first looked to see how many people thought antidepressants were "miracle drugs, poisons, or placebos", which was the title of the original article. However, only a handful of people used those terms in their comments. Almost everyone agreed that antidepressants were not just placebos.
Users employed a range of metaphors to describe the experience. 45 people described them as "livesaving" and 8 said they were a "Godsend". But 21 accused them of turning them into "a zombie".
Down at the bottom of the list were some more unique phrases that only one person used such as "Unleashes a 100 blind monkeys in your brain with instructions to rewire", "Uberpositive girl" and "Robot-zombie wrapped in 4 inches of insulation". That last one could be quite a good horror movie actually.
While there were a small number of absolutely negative comments like "evil" and "Devil's drug", the most consistent theme in the metaphors was that of emotional numbing, with the idea that these drugs remove the symptoms by removing the ability to feel (see e.g. "zombie", "robot", "disconnected", "in a bubble", "band aid".) which seems rather ambivalent. However, only about 10% of the users used any metaphors at all, so take that with a pinch of salt.
Even more salt is required for this graph I made from the table showing the number of positive, negative and mixed judgements on each antidepressant. I've not shown the data from drugs like tricyclics where there were less than 20 total responses. It's interesting, though, that people tended to be more positive about specific drugs than they were when talking about "antidepressants" in general.There were various other themes in the comments including an ongoing debate between people who said that depressed people ought to seek help from God (who tended to be non-users) vs those who disagreed (who tended to be users). Overall it's an interesting read, but I think it's one of those papers that's more interesting than it really deserves to be. At the end of the day, it's one comment thread on one article on one site.
11 comments:
And if you think that's interesting, you should search on the various permutations of "antidepressant withdrawal." Mild symptoms lasting maybe a few weeks? Hundreds of thousands of Internet posters don't think so.
This risk should be factored in to the "effectiveness" of antidepressants, don't you think?
I still want to do my doctorate on what real people on antidepressants say/think/feel about specific drugs. Better than a double blind crossover trial with knobs on for psychoactive drugs, I reckon!
The "numbing up" thing is the one I hear most often, but I also hear people terrified to stop antidepressants who've been on them for years and have no symptoms of depression.
@Surviving Hundreds of thousands is a bit of an exaggeration. Besides which, the people who have problems are the ones who are motivated to post about it, so you have a bias in the sample.
I'm really surprised to see that "mixed or not clear" comments were so rare. Even for me, who would describe my antidepressants as a "godsend" if only I believed in god, antidepressants are a very mixed bag.
Also, @Matt, if Surviving were making the argument that antidepressant withdrawal is usually not just "mild symptoms lasting maybe a few weeks", then we'd be worried about a bias. But as I'm reading it, the argument is that there is a non-negligible portion of the population experiencing severe withdrawal symptoms and that fact is not included in warnings or informed consent talks.
Jeff: I think that's the big problem with this kind of evidence, it's biased towards people with short simple opinions.
Mixed opinions are inherently longer and more trouble to spell out.
"Antidepressants are evil" takes 5 seconds.
"Antidepressants are pretty complicated, I think they helped me, but on the other hand maybe it was placebo, but that wouldn't explain why Prozac worked so much better than Celexa, although on the other hand..." - not many people would bother.
The ultimate answer:
http://www.whatdoestheinternetthink.net/index.php?s=antidepressants&st=all
Negative: 29.7%
Positive: 58.7%
Clueless: 11.6%
Doesn't this hinge on knowing how the participants understand the word "placebo"? For all we know, they may think the word means the drug is harmless (especially when placed next to the word Poison) or some other incorrect defenition.
From my experience antidepressants acted more like a mood stabilzer- particularly the SSRIs.I guess that might be similar to "zombie like".
I had negative expectations of antidepressants and I wonder if anyone has done much research on that? Isn't that called a nocebo effect?
My question is why bother? Symptoms like depression and anxiety are so susceptible to placebo or suggestion that you're never going to really know if they work or not until you fully understand the mechanism responsible for the problem and whether or not the antidepressant addresses it.
One guy could say they didn't resolve his symptoms and made him feel like a zombie, while another says they were a "godsend". Which one is right? Is one more right than another if he's in the majority? Seems to me, if they work for one guy, they work. If they don't work for another, they don't work.
Doesn't that just make the whole thing a farce? Depression and anxiety are symptoms. If you can't figure out what is actually at the bottom of it, good luck treating it. It's just throwing crap at the wall until you find something that sticks.
urm - maybe symptoms of depression and anxiety are open to change by suggestion, but depressive and anxiety disorders rarely are simply removable by a bit o psychotherapy
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